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Dear Olivia,
Thank you for your answer. After reading your explanation, it gives me a new understanding of the film.
In these two films, the social status of women is not very high in both China and the United States. This shows that their voice and credibility in society are very low. So they need to rely on some external conditions to get others to believe them and do what they say.
As a female, Catherine has no voice and credibility. She has to rely on the school she works for to have the prestige as a teacher. Once she does not act in accordance with the rules and regulations of the school, or even opposes the educational philosophy of the school, she will be questioned.
Similarly, Wang Cailing is respected by others because others can benefits from her. She does not really gain respect.
Therefore, what these two films have in common is to tell us that we should judge a woman based on her own talents, not on her wealth and beauty, and on whether the man she marries is good or not.
I hope there are similarities in our views. I look forward to your reply.
Yours,
Lin

Dear Olivia Myers
I am so glad to have the opportunity to communicate with you about the movie review.
From where i stand, the beauty of a woman may have an influence on the realization of her dream, but the most important factor is the social status of women. Sometimes it's just the inapparent clothes and make-up that shape the image of Wang Cailing, a bottom woman who failed to continue to pursue her career.
I am looking forward to hearing from you.
Yours,
Shuyou Xiao

oum64 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:59 pm Dear Lin,

1035143406 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:00 pm They (women) must rely on the recognition of others to realize their self-worth. Society has laid down a lot of frameworks for women, so that women have to live the way they want.

I liked what you said here about how women at the time needed recognition from others in order to have value in a sense. To me, it seemed as if the women needed permission to achieve success and needed people to accept them for each milestone they hit. Concerning your question about ethos, I believe since the women portrayed in these films have a lower status in society compared to the men, they have a limited ethos. Ethos is essentially one's credibility as a speaker and therefore is the society does not value the speaker, they will not have any credibility/ethos evem if they have the skills. For Mona Lisa Smile, Catherine was a new, female professor that believed in herself outside of the conservative views of the school. This caused many students and staff to have doubts about her credibility. For And the Spring Comes, Ms. Wang used her false career as her credibility but it never quite worked out. If she did not use a career to help her case, many character in the film would never have listened to her.

Thank you for taking the time to respond and ask questions. I am looking forward to hearing your reply.

All the best,
Olivia Myers:)

Dear Olivia Myers
Your reply has revealed a lot of things I didn't notice. Indeed, this switch of lens allows us to better target key characters in the film. I think the contrast you have mentioned between the two films is also worth exploring. Maybe you can think about why that is. Does it have to do with class differences? Is it related to social and cultural background? I sincerely hope that you can make further discoveries and communicate with me. Looking forward to your reply.
Yours
Zhang Peiyun

Dear Olivia
At the end of the movie, the director gave Wang Cailing a dream.
In her dream, she really went to the Central Opera House to sing. She was dressed in elegant costumes, standing in the center of the stage. There were no empty seats under the stage and the stage was resplendent.
Like Wang Cailing, in fact, every one of us who has been persistent in pursuing dreams is worth having such a dream.
From
Shuyou Xiao

Dear Zhou Hanying,

I agree with you about your views on the men in China as well as the women of that time. Both men and women struggled to find meaning as we saw with the men who asked Ms. Wang to marry them. What I understood from this was that the men were also judged by their society if they were unmarried. In America, men were also judged if they were unmarried, but the stress was more about having a successful career and housewife to take care of the home. How it would work was that the men would marry a woman that would have his children, raise the children, and keep a tidy house while the man would basically work and could have a 'life outside of the home'. It may mean that he would have affairs, abusive habits, or some sort of altered lifestyle. The idea of having a wife and kids was less out of desire but as a way to increase social standing among peers at work. I am unfamiliar with the Chinese view of the family, at least what it used to be at the time of "And The Spring Comes". I want to know why marriage, not dating or love, was so important in the eyes of peers. Was this also what prohibited men from chasing their dreams? That they would have to give up their pursuit of knowledge, arts, love, to marry someone their parents picked out for them? If so, it reminds me a bit of what America used to be. Men would leave the life they were forced to have at home while persuing the life they really wanted outside of it.

All the best,
Olivia Myers

Dear Lin,

I definitely agree with what you said about how women with talent are ignored if they do not look or act like how it is expected of them. I also thought about the girl who faked having cancer in "And the Spring Comes" who clearly had incredible talent, but felt that she would have not been seen if she didn't act as if she were dying of a disease. It makes me wonder if vanity and talent matter as much as we think it does. If a girl who is youthful, talented, and (at least I thought she was) pretty cannot be seen or respected by others, then who is? And why? I wonder if those without beauty or talent are striving for those things because we as a culture do not truly understand why we pick and choose who we like and want to be successful.
Do you have any thoughts about this? I know America is heavily influenced by Hollywood and social media culture, and so we end up with many successful people who are not beautiful or talented. I wonder what makes them so lucky in comparison to Ms. Wang and Catherine who are talented and educated women.

All the best,
Olivia Myers

Dear Shuyou Xiao,

You raise a good point about how appearance with clothing and makeup can change one's view of a person. It reminded me of the videos of women who put on makeup and practically transform into someone else. I wonder if the root of this is money, to be able to have the finances to afford expensive clothing and makeup rather than someone's actual appearance. I would like to hear your thoughts on that.

As for your second comment about how Ms. Wang's dream showed how we all have a fantasy we desire inside of us, I agree. I think this was a form of practical daydreaming where we all wish our hobbies and talent would have a chance to become recognized. Perhaps her desire to be genuinely needed and not just by convenience was why she seemed so happy with her child. Her child gave her the satisfaction she has been pursuing in the guise of a career.
What are your thoughts on this idea?

All the best,
Olivia Myers

Dear Zhang Peiyun,

I think the idea of a class system already imposes restrictions on people and therefore I agree that it would definitely impact who is heard and who is ignored. Those in higher classes (the wealthy and powerful) tend to be more heard than those who are struggling. Why is this? Most people aspire to be wealthy and successful so they do not have to struggle each day. The way to learn how to rise to an upper class is by learning from those who have already done so. I think Ms. Wang tried to fake her position in Beijing and the Opera as a way to get people to treat and listen to her like they would if she were upper class.
What do you think about this?

All the best,
Olivia Myers

oum64 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:25 pm Dear Zhang Peiyun,

I think the idea of a class system already imposes restrictions on people and therefore I agree that it would definitely impact who is heard and who is ignored. Those in higher classes (the wealthy and powerful) tend to be more heard than those who are struggling. Why is this? Most people aspire to be wealthy and successful so they do not have to struggle each day. The way to learn how to rise to an upper class is by learning from those who have already done so. I think Ms. Wang tried to fake her position in Beijing and the Opera as a way to get people to treat and listen to her like they would if she were upper class.
What do you think about this?

All the best,
Olivia Myers

Dear Olivia Myers,
I'm glad to receive your reply. Your idea strikes me as very original and reasonable. Indeed, most of the people who struggle are those who strive to be more like the upper class, who learn from those who are already in the upper class, and like Wang Cailing, she does so to gain respect and dignity. Self - respect and self - improvement drove her to never cease. While Catherine is a person who has received higher education. It can be said that she has been a member of the upper class, so her pursuit is no longer limited to the pursuit of personal dignity, but the realization of self-worth. This is due to class differences. Do you agree with me?
All the best,
Zhang Peiyun

1578267199 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:21 am

oum64 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:25 pm Dear Zhang Peiyun,

I think the idea of a class system already imposes restrictions on people and therefore I agree that it would definitely impact who is heard and who is ignored. Those in higher classes (the wealthy and powerful) tend to be more heard than those who are struggling. Why is this? Most people aspire to be wealthy and successful so they do not have to struggle each day. The way to learn how to rise to an upper class is by learning from those who have already done so. I think Ms. Wang tried to fake her position in Beijing and the Opera as a way to get people to treat and listen to her like they would if she were upper class.
What do you think about this?

All the best,
Olivia Myers

Dear Olivia Myers,
I'm glad to receive your reply. Your idea strikes me as very original and reasonable. Indeed, most of the people who struggle are those who strive to be more like the upper class, who learn from those who are already in the upper class, and like Wang Cailing, she does so to gain respect and dignity. Self - respect and self - improvement drove her to never cease. While Catherine is a person who has received higher education. It can be said that she has been a member of the upper class, so her pursuit is no longer limited to the pursuit of personal dignity, but the realization of self-worth. This is due to class differences. Do you agree with me?
All the best,
Zhang Peiyun

I agree where I think Catherine was already in a position of power above where Ms. Wang was. Catherine had a college education which for a woman at the time was very impressive. College education was not necessarily needed in order to have a successful career, but it created an upper-class culture of scholars. I think this was the culture Catherine was trying to fit in with but she struggled with it because then she would not be able to push her progressive beliefs. I noticed in And The Spring Comes that education was not necessarily as much of a focus, it was more about where a person lived and who they worked for. Perhaps the definition of an upper-class person is different per Eastern and Western cultures.

All the best,
Olivia Myers